Alexandria HS stops morning prayers after student complains
Mar 18, 2010 | 10080 views | 169 
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There, brightly colored flyers printed with Bible verses hang on the walls, weekly Bible studies are held before class begins and, until recently, prayers were spoken over the school’s intercom system. But that regular practice stopped this week when a student questioned the legality of the practice.
“Every day in the morning we would have student-led prayer over the PA system and I looked this up. It’s illegal,” the student said. “It wasn’t just me; there were a bunch of other students who wanted it stopped.”
He said he demanded it stop in a voicemail sent to Superintendent Judy Stiefel. He also contacted the American Civil Liberties Union by e-mail and by hand-written letter to complain about the issue.
The student requested he not be named in this story because he expected his classmates would not react well to his actions.
In response to the complaint Stiefel sent out an e-mail earlier this week to every school in the system. She said Wednesday the e-mail “reminded them of the law.” The morning prayers at Alexandria High stopped Tuesday.
Alexandria Principal Ronald Chambless declined to comment for this story.
Supreme Court decisions have set precedents prohibiting school-sponsored religious activity, based on the First Amendment, which states Congress may make no law “respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
“The U.S. Supreme Court has made it pretty clear that school officials cannot sponsor prayers,” said Bryan Fair, a University of Alabama law professor. “They control the PA system; the student doesn’t control the PA system. That is going to be considered government speech rather than private speech.”
However, the law does not prohibit all prayer. Private prayer and voluntary student prayer is permissible by the law and is allowed at Calhoun County Schools, according to school board attorney Robin Andrews.
“Each student is free to pray individually or with other students during non-instructional time, during lunch, before or after school; even during class, providing it’s private and doesn’t interfere with instruction,” Andrews said.
Allison Neal, legal director of the Alabama chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said these issues are common in the state and that they usually are resolved without taking any legal action. Neal said that her group normally handles such complaints by talking with school superintendents, but Stiefel said Wednesday the ACLU had not contacted her about the issue.
“I have only had one student to comment about this,” Stiefel said. “It has not been a major problem.”
The student said he was motivated to take action because he didn’t think it was fair for the student body, which he described as overwhelmingly “fundamentally Christian” to subject all students to Christian prayers and Bible verses.
“What bothered me about it is that it’s illegal and I don’t want the school breaking the law like that,” the student said. “I want to stand up for fairness. I’m a person that embraces all religion and I love everyone.”
http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindivphp/SchID_83533_year_2004.html
I want to say that this move is not taking prayer out of the shcool, it is simply ensuring that the school is not held responsible for breaking the law and having others interpret their actions as establishing a certain religion. This also gives the Christians that exist in that school an even greater chance to make a statement about their beliefs and the lives they choose to live.
Imagine a classroom of kids- Christians and non-Christians- sitting in homeroom listening to the announcements. The "moment of silence" or whatever the school chooses to call it begins. Those who are Christians decide to take this moment to silently pray- those who are not Christians may choose to act in any way they please. There may come a day when those who are non-Christians will begin to notice the Christians in the classroom praying and will become inquisitive- giving those Christians the chance to build a relationship and share their beliefs (the way that I personally believe people will be reached for the glory of God). Think about it... make the best of the situation.
Don't push too hard to impose your religion on those who do not understand or agree-you often make a greater impact when you build relationships and let the life you live shine through any situation you are placed in.
I won't try to reply to all your statements. This just has too many facets to do justice to them here. I will just say that I agree with many of your statements but then you were not the one I was talking about. It is just that I am tired of everyone being offended, especially a kid whose brain is not fully developed and has judgment deficiencies. And that has pretty much been proven. I have proven it as to myself as I was a stupid teenager once. For that reason I think teenagers should sit down and be quiet and if they want to know something ask their parents.
I do not agree with the gov't trying to tax tobacco companies out of business but the last time I checked I could only hold my breath for about 20 seconds. Similarily the last time I checked, my kids are able to ignore me and their teachers for years and not hear a word we say. I am pretty confident folks are able to listen to disenting opinions or completely tune out what they are not interested in. Heck after reading two of Revgarywhite's post I don't even read them anymore. I am sure you do the same to people or things you are not interested in.
The positive side is that I still read your comments, thanks
To answer your question, and this is from someone who is somewhat against public prayer as in this situation, at least as for me, it is not that I object to someone who does not like public prayer. Otherwise I would be objecting to myself. It is because I stereotype. Yes, stereotype. And that is not a bad word, contrary to pc thought. I figure that most people who make a fuss about school prayer are not only against school prayer but are against the American tradition, including what we call traditional values and want to change them. Either that or they just want attention.
Certain traits don't usually occur in isolation. The same attitude that gives one a desire to openly fight school prayer many times gives rise to fighting tradition in general. And they usually become democrats and support people who want to take over my health care, for one practical example. It would be interesting to know the background and other fact about this person and see if I am right. But I could be wrong as there are exceptions to stereotypes, as in myself.
But I can't speak for others.
John 3 verse 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Matthew 24 verse 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Acts 2 verse 21 And it shall come to pass , that whosoever shall call of the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10 verse 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 16 verse 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 8 verse 24 For we are saved by hope;
Romans 10 verse 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thin heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
2nd Thessalonians 2 verse 10 because they recieved not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Ephesians 2 verse 5 by grace ye are saved
Ephesians 2 verse 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
It appears as though there are many ways to be saved and being saved(definition) is as vague a subject as I have ever read about. If one desires to be saved , then what is it that one is saved from? Eternity in a pit filled with fire and gnashing of teeth? If people really believed this then why are people even reproducing themselves???(why bring a baby into this world knowing that he might die without being "saved" and roast in hell ) Another verse needs to be added to the bible. " For it is written , thou shalt not question the interpolations and redactions in the christian bible placed there by the church at Rome." I guess most everyone is going to burn in hell as very few have a love for the truth as is stated in 2nd Thessalonians 2 verse 10" because they recieved not the love of the truth, that they might be saved". The holy bible is the correct name for that book as the storys and the verses are full of holes, but who actually reads that book anymore? Folks need to be saved from religion. AMEN RAH
I guess my main focus my whole life to include my military service has been to ensure everyone has maximum freedom and individual choice. The more we let government write rules and regulations the more individual freedoms we lose.
The difference between music, food etc. and what may be deemed to be religion is just that. One is religion and the others are not. Religion is specifically addressed in the constitution and the others are not, except the free speech thing. However, free speech has it's limits. I don't need to mention that crowed theatre again. One of those limits may may be in conjunction with In Parentis Loci (not sure about that phrase or spelling, I forget). That is, the school is in a sense acting as the parent and has more authority over students than in other situations, similar to what a parent would have.
I am sure you notice the contradiction, that the school has that authority and if so why can't they decide about religion? Well, there are exceptions to that too. One being religion, based on things related to the establishment clause.
I am one that think that students should not have any free speech based on the above. Any free speech problems should be put forth by the parents in representing their child. So in my opinion, free speech as to the students should not be in play.
But from a constitutional standpoint, I agree that this issue should be left up to the local communities as overseen by the state. The establishment clause prohibits congress or the federal government from establishing a religion, not the states, imo. But of course that has been changed by court decisions.
So from a constitutional, states rights view I agree that the school should be allowed to have prayer if the state agrees. But from a personal point of view, I don't like to sit through someone giving their religious views. I most likely would disagree with them, even if they were from a Christian. And I have already stated my opinion on public prayer.
"Are Stars Actually Giant Diamonds? Science and Math Confirms It!
Genesis1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
I would like to expound on this as some people are confused about the nature of stars. We can gather two conclusions from this verse. 1) Stars are meant to divide day and night and 2) They are meant for time-keeping.
Since stars are clearly stated to be designed for human purpose, it makes no sense that they would be millions of light-years away like scientists claim. If God made stars so we can keep track of time, why separate them from earth by vast distances? Furthermore, if they were millions of light-years away, that would mean they would have to be very, very big -- even bigger than our own sun. No, that doesn't make sense at all.
Stars are simply lights. But they are not the same as the sun, as scientists say because stars are not yellowish-orange. They are white, silvery, and twinkly. I hypothesize that they are actually celestial diamonds that are reflecting moonlight. That would account for their white-silvery light. They can't be lumps of coal like the sun, otherwise they would be yellow. I think we can agree that diamonds would be the most likely choice.
__________________
The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it. Proverbs 10:22
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I have been talking with some national lawyers on this and essentially the problem never existed until 1940 because prayer was essentially a free speech issue tied to the First Amendment and the Federal Government looked at as a States Right or local Government issue. With the litigation and judicial lawmaking since 1940 the Federal Government says the First Amendment does not matter and is superceded by the Establishment Clause.
I am still trying to figure that one out especially given that the Founding Fathers were trying to get away from "The Establishment of The Day" the King of England. Also interesting that the Founders in all of their infinite widsom as to how they wanted the Country they were founding and writing the rules and regulations made a "mistake" and inadvertantly put the First Amendment down first instead of something called the Establishment Clause.
Boy, they must not have thought this whole Revolution thing through.
On a serious note. Let the students have 30 or 60 seconds of MIC time to read a poem, talk about the upcoming game, pat a fellow student on the back, educate all about a public interest story, read from the Koran, recite the rosary or pray to God. Every individual has different interests and background and under the First Amendment they have the right to speak whatever they want within reason. Heck the boy that complained could have given a discourse why he disagreed with it as is his right. When we start to limit everyone we all lose in the end.
I highly doubt the kid has gone out and bragged about making the complaint, since he asked for anonymity....and that being case, valleyho has no idea who the kid is, and is just making a claim to look like somebody in the know....all valleyho has to do is post the link to facebook and let all of us decide....
I'm from Oxford, and I know very well how news travels fast in a small community....I also know that rumors and innuendos can cause trouble for someone that's innocent....Apparently, you don't know the kid very well since you had to find out about him/her from facebook....
And valleyho, a person don't SINCE....They have SENSE....excluding you of course....
Click her for the Friendly Atheist blog entry
http://friendlyatheist.com/2010/03/19/another-young-hero-fights-against-high-school-prayers/
I've got more since than to put his name on here moron.